Been a while since the last post... Time to enter the debate!
Let me start by stating my credentials. I am not the most intelligent person, but I always try to think my arguments through. My IQ is roughly 121. I am currently in an Australian University studying Microbiolgy.
Now, as for my argument:
I am going to point out a few things I know about life. Things which are rather obvious.
1. Everything that lives will eventually die. Be it Disease, famine, predator, accident, not knowing water depth and jumping, everything that is alive, or will be, will die.
2. Something that is not suited to it's environment is more likely to die. Examples: A crocodile out of water, Plant in constant shade, slow rabbits etc.
3. While things are alive, most of them will reproduce. These reproductions are not clones. Life reproduces with variation. Easily observable, just notice how you're different from your parents. The exception to this rule are creature is reproduce asexually, but even these mutate to create variation.
Because life reproduces with variation, life is constantly changing. In an unchanging environment, if a species has a high survival rate, few changes will occur over long periods of time. If the environment changes, and the species is no longer well adapted to living there, the changes will be more dramatic.
The term 'more dramatic' means that while individuals will still look very similar, the whole population will change in a certain evolutionary 'direction' very quickly. The individuals who are best at surviving in the environment will reproduce more, causing certain features to be more prominent, and/or others to be less prominent. In some cases, two populations of the same species, in the same environment, will begin to diverge. The populations have to be somehow separeted, or else the gene pool will be flooded by the other. The separation may be an earthquake caused fissure leaving half the population on each side, or perhaps a diverted river.
I haven't found evidence for it, but it seems to me that if behavioural conditions cause certain packs or herds to remain separate, despite no other barrier stopping interbreeding, speciation could occur. This would probably take much longer, considering the likelihood of outliers who cross to another herd or pack.
Eventually, the separate species have varied so much that interbreeding is no longer an option. This is when they are considered 2 different species. I even have an analogy for how a reptilian-like creature(RLC) could have evolved into a bird.
Based on observed facts, we can choose a group of RLC's who lived in trees. The survive on a diet of insects and plants. A RLC is born with slightly lighter bones. This gives him the advantage of being able to jump higher, and use less energy during the course of life. He survives longer, and reproduces more, because he can get more food, and is less susceptible to death due to fatigue. There are other factors, but they don't play a particularly significant role. His genes are passed onto the next generation, some with lighter bones, some with heavier, but all lighter then the average of the last generation. This trend continues, creating lighter and lighter bones, until a compromise is reached between survival through extra resources, and death through broken bones. The original mutation could have occured a number of ways. It could have been a random mutation caused by mutagens in the diet, or environment; it could have been a result of a particular combination of genes; etc..
To answer the obvious statement: "Bone-density doesn't make a bird", I say You're right! But the idea behind my logic can be applied to wings, feathers, beaks.... basically anything. The thing it can't work for, are things that don't originally give a benefit, even if the might eventually. It uses the argument "what's the use of half a x" as evidence for evolution. AND, whose to say that only one change can occur in a population at a time? While bone density is improving, perhaps vestigial wings are developing, or scales are growing into feathers.
And finally, evolution has no aim, no foresight. It has no hindsight either. Whatever works right now is what is selected. And, NO! I am not suggesting something is guiding natural selection, other then the energy, and fertility, of the individual beings, and the choices of the sexual chooser. (By this I mean when a certain sex selects a mate based on appearance, or dominence)
Now, hit me with your best shot! I want to hear counters to my explaination, flaws in my argument and other such things. I especially want to hear from Athiests, and Evolutionists (I know, not a real group, but used for understanding purposes). If you come at me with a stupid argument, be prepared for an equally stupid response. I'll do my best to answer all responses.
Showing posts with label Debate. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Debate. Show all posts
Monday, July 12, 2010
Evolution, my thoughts
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Wednesday, April 7, 2010
Debate, Discussion and Deliberation
I enjoy learning. I enjoy thinking. I enjoy teaching. What I don't enjoy is arguing. In my experience, there are 3 main methods for creative thought: Debate, Discussion, Deliberation. The 3 D's.
Debate
Debate is an extremely good way of inspiring creative thought. By having someone refute your ideas, and you defend and refute theirs, you must think on your toes. There has been many an occasion where I've come upon sudden realisation because of having to point out flaws in a well constructed argument. On several occasions, this realisation was the flaws of my own arguments.
I don't like debate. It's easy to let emotions run high, and lose sight of what your point is. For example, I was once discussing how evolution works. I decided to use the bird as an example. By the end of my argument I was pointing out that radiometric dating was therefore justified. I remember little of my argument, only that afterwards I felt foolish.
My advice to debaters, whether formal, or just amongst friends, is keep your cool. In the heat of passion, your arguments may seem valid, but upon later reflection, they were off the mark.
Discussion
Discussion of a topic, whether it be as important as the existence of God, or as silly as the theme to your next party, is a good way to figure things out. It doesn't work well for extremely outspoken people, as most will try to prove their idea correct, rather then try and adapt theirs in the light of others. This is not to say outspoken people shouldn't discuss their ideas, just that they should be careful when they do.
I enjoy discussion, it allows for me to add my 2 cents in such a way that it helps others learn. By listening to others explanations and examples, I can grasp ideas that were until then completely unintelligible. It was through discussion that I first came to understand the concept of Natural Selection. From the above example, I later tried again at using the bird to explain evolution to a christian, with the help of a friend. Questions I couldn't answer my friend did, and ones he couldn't answer I did. We both started with a very basic concept (mutation causes advantages change), but during the discussion we reasoned out a strong explanation.
My advice to those wanting to discuss, find others with an interest in the topic, and ask questions of one another. Or do like I did, and try to teach it to someone, even if they know it better then you, they may have some pointers.
Deliberation
Deliberation is basically thinking about a topic. This is a direct approach, and as such can help quickly, provided you have a rational mind, and can look at a topic objectively. It has a varying amount of success, because you either don't grasp a concept, or your not hindered by the flaws in others ideas. It is also the most difficult for those not used to thinking. I don't mean to sound cruel, but most people I've met are sheep. They just do like everyone else, and never think for themselves.
I LOVE deliberation. I constantly do it. At any given time, my head is trying to figure something out. Sometimes it's important (like the evolution of the butterfly), sometimes it's not (why'd my mate put on that skirt). Because of this, I usually have an answer to questions asked of me. Whether or not the answer is correct is based mostly on whether my original understanding was good. Creativity is a vital ingredient to the reasoning recipe. Lateral thinkers are adept at thinking creatively.
My advice for people trying to think of the answer is, realise that there may be more then one way towards the answer. Don't assume the first way you think of is right. If it isn't working, try a new approach. Above all, ENJOY IT! If you're getting stressed about it, relax, take a break and get back to it later, you may find that after a break, your mind is ready to find the answer.
I'm fairly sure that these three avenues of thought are the three main "kingdoms". Although, they could be lumped into personal and public deliberation. In any case, the 3 I've listed here shouldn't be used alone to solve a problem. Thinking privately about a debate you've had is a great way to prepare for next time. Discussing what you thought with friends and colleagues will further hone your ideas, until you have a solid understanding.
Until next time, Fui fides tantum in testimonium.
Debate
Debate is an extremely good way of inspiring creative thought. By having someone refute your ideas, and you defend and refute theirs, you must think on your toes. There has been many an occasion where I've come upon sudden realisation because of having to point out flaws in a well constructed argument. On several occasions, this realisation was the flaws of my own arguments.
I don't like debate. It's easy to let emotions run high, and lose sight of what your point is. For example, I was once discussing how evolution works. I decided to use the bird as an example. By the end of my argument I was pointing out that radiometric dating was therefore justified. I remember little of my argument, only that afterwards I felt foolish.
My advice to debaters, whether formal, or just amongst friends, is keep your cool. In the heat of passion, your arguments may seem valid, but upon later reflection, they were off the mark.
Discussion
Discussion of a topic, whether it be as important as the existence of God, or as silly as the theme to your next party, is a good way to figure things out. It doesn't work well for extremely outspoken people, as most will try to prove their idea correct, rather then try and adapt theirs in the light of others. This is not to say outspoken people shouldn't discuss their ideas, just that they should be careful when they do.
I enjoy discussion, it allows for me to add my 2 cents in such a way that it helps others learn. By listening to others explanations and examples, I can grasp ideas that were until then completely unintelligible. It was through discussion that I first came to understand the concept of Natural Selection. From the above example, I later tried again at using the bird to explain evolution to a christian, with the help of a friend. Questions I couldn't answer my friend did, and ones he couldn't answer I did. We both started with a very basic concept (mutation causes advantages change), but during the discussion we reasoned out a strong explanation.
My advice to those wanting to discuss, find others with an interest in the topic, and ask questions of one another. Or do like I did, and try to teach it to someone, even if they know it better then you, they may have some pointers.
Deliberation
Deliberation is basically thinking about a topic. This is a direct approach, and as such can help quickly, provided you have a rational mind, and can look at a topic objectively. It has a varying amount of success, because you either don't grasp a concept, or your not hindered by the flaws in others ideas. It is also the most difficult for those not used to thinking. I don't mean to sound cruel, but most people I've met are sheep. They just do like everyone else, and never think for themselves.
I LOVE deliberation. I constantly do it. At any given time, my head is trying to figure something out. Sometimes it's important (like the evolution of the butterfly), sometimes it's not (why'd my mate put on that skirt). Because of this, I usually have an answer to questions asked of me. Whether or not the answer is correct is based mostly on whether my original understanding was good. Creativity is a vital ingredient to the reasoning recipe. Lateral thinkers are adept at thinking creatively.
My advice for people trying to think of the answer is, realise that there may be more then one way towards the answer. Don't assume the first way you think of is right. If it isn't working, try a new approach. Above all, ENJOY IT! If you're getting stressed about it, relax, take a break and get back to it later, you may find that after a break, your mind is ready to find the answer.
I'm fairly sure that these three avenues of thought are the three main "kingdoms". Although, they could be lumped into personal and public deliberation. In any case, the 3 I've listed here shouldn't be used alone to solve a problem. Thinking privately about a debate you've had is a great way to prepare for next time. Discussing what you thought with friends and colleagues will further hone your ideas, until you have a solid understanding.
Until next time, Fui fides tantum in testimonium.
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